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 Fire Extinguisher Expiration?
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sugilbert

L'Chiam
3754 Posts

Posted - Jun 10 2020 :  18:42:46  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Always thought that all was A-OK as long as the gauge needle was in the green.
Last weekend, my son got stopped by the CG and all was fine except his fire extinguisher was 15 years old (Mfg date on the bottom). CG stays 12 years is max, and wrote him a ticket.
He can nullify the ticket upon showing new unit.

Went to the marine store with him today, who said they never heard of such a thing---only commercial vessels. (son's is strictly private!)
When did this start?

Steve
"L'Chiam" 29' 2000 Regal Commodore 2660 (2765) T/4.3 Alphas

cwms

6290 Posts

Posted - Jun 10 2020 :  21:34:53  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Boater safety class has been teaching this for at least 5-6 years, maybe longer. When I found out, I replaced mine as all I had were out of date. One was so old, it didn't even have a date stamp

I'm pretty sure if you get a vessel safety inspection from either the CG Aux or US Power Squadron, they check dates.

Edited by - cwms on Jun 10 2020 21:38:11
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Good Grief

USA
2200 Posts

Posted - Jun 11 2020 :  09:08:56  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Steve - on the 4100 boarding form your son received, under Citation, there should be a reference to the USC/CFR which was violated. If legible, please provide. I'd really like to see the cite.

-Gene
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Stephen Hawking
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sugilbert

L'Chiam
3754 Posts

Posted - Jun 11 2020 :  09:34:52  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
2016.
Rules where changed and certain inspections where removed. They also included a 12 year cap on fire extinguishers for all vessels. Recreational and commercial.

www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/FR-2016-07-22/html/2016-15229.htm

Well, they sure made a secret out of it! I am on boating forums and web sites daily, and never knew about it!

Steve
"L'Chiam" 29' 2000 Regal Commodore 2660 (2765) T/4.3 Alphas

Edited by - sugilbert on Jun 11 2020 09:35:53
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PatSea

USA
206 Posts

Posted - Jun 15 2020 :  16:44:45  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Im a Power Squadron vessel examiner and I was unaware of this 12 year cap on fire extinguishers. I went back and double checked my training materials and there was no mention of portable extinguishers having an expiration date. Not sure why they kept thus such a secret.
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cwms

6290 Posts

Posted - Jun 15 2020 :  16:52:32  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I've got 2 buddies, 1 Power Squadron and the other is CG Aux, they both do vessel exams and together, they teach the boater safety class. They are the ones who told me about the 12 year expiration.
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Michael Clemensen

USA
1358 Posts

Posted - Jun 15 2020 :  17:07:25  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks for the heads up! Checked mine (1) '94, (1) '04 and (1) With NO stamp nor a date on the label. Went to Bass Pro and picked up (2) First Alert 1-A:10-B:C. NOT Stamped on the Bottom but in very small print on the label, 2019. Already 1/12 expired. Good to go until 9/2020 when the Arial flares reach their expiration date. Bass Pro team member didn't know of the life limit.
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Sandy

USA
9337 Posts

Posted - Jun 15 2020 :  17:53:36  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sugilbert

2016.
Rules where changed and certain inspections where removed. They also included a 12 year cap on fire extinguishers for all vessels. Recreational and commercial.

www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/FR-2016-07-22/html/2016-15229.htm

Well, they sure made a secret out of it! I am on boating forums and web sites daily, and never knew about it!



Could you quote the section in that linked report that states portable fire extinguishers in recreational engine-powered vessels cannot be more than 12 yrs old?

I think that is a reasonably good idea, but I just skimmed that whole gobbledygook tome that I doubt anyone not subsequently under a psychiatrists care has ever read every word of including its crafters, but could not find it.
That doesn't mean it isn't there. Or in a separate publication for recreational vessel regulations?

And the report begins with "SUMMARY: The Coast Guard is issuing a final rule for certain design and
approval standards for fire protection, detection, extinguishing
equipment, and materials on inspected and uninspected vessels, outer
continental shelf facilities, deepwater ports, and mobile offshore
drilling units."
....Which indicates to me it is likely directed toward requirements for commercial vessel operations. "Recreational" is such a completely different category , I would think it would be mentioned separately if it the intent was to include it, not in uninspected ( commercial) vessels .

Sandy

Edited by - Sandy on Jun 15 2020 17:56:50
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sugilbert

L'Chiam
3754 Posts

Posted - Jun 15 2020 :  18:15:07  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
"These provisions apply to all the affected populations carrying
portable and semi-portable fire extinguishers listed in Table 4,
including recreational vessels."

Steve
"L'Chiam" 29' 2000 Regal Commodore 2660 (2765) T/4.3 Alphas

Edited by - sugilbert on Jun 15 2020 18:15:45
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The Other Gary

Canada
8615 Posts

Posted - Jun 15 2020 :  18:24:25  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Do not forget to check the KIDDE site. they recalled a whole lot of 5 and 10 A B and C models.
I got 6 new ones shipped free to me with metal handles in 2018.

If yours have a plastic handle chances are they will ship you new ones at no cost.

https://www.consumerreports.org/fire-extinguishers/kidde-fire-extinguisher-recall/




Gary Peck 1997 Bayliner 3988 MY, twin 330 Cummins

I saw a movie where only the military and the police had guns,,,,, It was called Schindler's List

Edited by - The Other Gary on Jun 15 2020 18:27:24
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Good Grief

USA
2200 Posts

Posted - Jun 16 2020 :  07:43:13  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Sandy -
from Steve's cite -

Federal Register, volume 81, issue 141 July 22, 2016

Page 48230

Maintenance: NFPA 10: 2010

2nd para Ė
ď Non-rechargeable (non-refillable) fire extinguishers are
replaceable units that are expected to require little or no
maintenance; after one use or a maximum service life of 12 years, they
are replaced.Ē

I can't speak to Power Squadron, but USCG Aux information does not include an expiration date guidance. So a at this point, I've been informing Exam Requesters of this 'requirement', but I will not / cannot hold back a satisfactory inspection for 'old' FE's.

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/FR-2016-07-22/html/2016-15229.htm



-Gene
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Stephen Hawking
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cwms

6290 Posts

Posted - Jun 16 2020 :  10:59:19  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:


I can't speak to Power Squadron, but USCG Aux information does not include an expiration date guidance. So a at this point, I've been informing Exam Requesters of this 'requirement', but I will not / cannot hold back a satisfactory inspection for 'old' FE's.

https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/FR-2016-07-22/html/2016-15229.htm




I hope you are at least telling the vessel owners about the 12 year regulation.
If you inspected my boat and passed me with expired FE's and later I got a citation because of them, I wouldn't be very happy.
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PatSea

USA
206 Posts

Posted - Jun 16 2020 :  13:55:04  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
The US Power Squadron documents for conducting a vessel exam refer back to US Coast Guard documents. I re-read those documents yesterday and there is no mention of the 12 year expiration. I find the lack of clear direction to be very strange.
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Sandy

USA
9337 Posts

Posted - Jun 16 2020 :  21:30:54  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Thanks, Steve & Gene!
My latest 2 portables are 2 yrs old at most and unused.
Now all I need to do is get the winter yard to finish up so I can see if the USCG Aux. has begun to perform the VSC examinations once again, & get that annual helpful sticker on the side window.

Sandy
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Good Grief

USA
2200 Posts

Posted - Jun 17 2020 :  08:44:40  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Like I mentioned, I have been informing vessel owners of this requirement - as of this week - as that's when I heard about it (thanks Steve!)

I did reach out to my Aux leadership on this mission, and they state that our National leadership is aware of the issue, and is working on it . . ..

-Gene
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Stephen Hawking
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November Charlie

USA
9408 Posts

Posted - Jul 04 2020 :  21:32:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sugilbert





Recreational boat? If so, the Boarding Officer was wrong and should have known better. I would wait for the VCCC to kick it back to them and to send a letter saying itís closed. Then Iíd forward it to the Officer in Charge or Commanding Officer that certified that Boarding Officer politely requesting an explanation for why his unit is enforcing inapplicable regulations for recreational vessels. Itís not okay, and that BO needs some guidance and training before heís let loose again.

My signature line is cooler than your signature line.
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Good Grief

USA
2200 Posts

Posted - Jul 06 2020 :  07:28:12  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
So what are you saying, NC? No NVIC, no requirement?

-Gene
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Stephen Hawking
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November Charlie

USA
9408 Posts

Posted - Jul 06 2020 :  12:50:57  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Good Grief

So what are you saying, NC? No NVIC, no requirement?



Not for recreational vessels. Navigation and Vessel Inspection Circulars pertain to inspected vessels and facilities, and in some cases uninspected passenger vessels. When Iím back on a regular keyboard instead of tapping on an iPhone during a boring Zoom meeting Iíll come back and break down the different categories.

My signature line is cooler than your signature line.
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sugilbert

L'Chiam
3754 Posts

Posted - Jul 06 2020 :  15:24:33  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
So TOTALLY Confused! Why, then, is ""These provisions apply to all the affected populations carrying portable and semi-portable fire extinguishers listed in Table 4, including recreational vessels." contained in the
link www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/FR-2016-07-22/html/2016-15229.htm

If you search the mile long regs for 'recreational vessels', it is the 2nd and 4th to show up out of 8.

I'm sorry, NC, but the writing seems to be on the wall---just hidden in small print, just like everything else in Washington!

Steve
"L'Chiam" 29' 2000 Regal Commodore 2660 (2765) T/4.3 Alphas
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Good Grief

USA
2200 Posts

Posted - Jul 07 2020 :  08:16:55  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
thanks Mike, looking forward to it. FWIW - the Federal Register reference from Steve includes refence to recreation vessels (Sub-C), as well as UPV, Sub-T and Sub-K, and a bunch more. (table 4)

Steve - what specifically was on the 4100 form, and what specifically did the boarding officer explain? (the BO could have failed the FE's cuz they showed excessive degradation [e.g., significant sun exposure to operating valve assembly, causing the plastic to become discolored/degraded; excessive corrosion on cylinder; or, the indicating dial could no longer be easily read [again, due to degradation], and summarized that condition by stating they were 'old'.)

-Gene
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Stephen Hawking
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sugilbert

L'Chiam
3754 Posts

Posted - Jul 07 2020 :  08:52:59  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Gene, I cannot tell you, It wasn't me--it was my son.
The ONLY reason for the citation was the expiration date. There was no sign of any age related problems with his extinguisher.

Steve
"L'Chiam" 29' 2000 Regal Commodore 2660 (2765) T/4.3 Alphas
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November Charlie

USA
9408 Posts

Posted - Jul 07 2020 :  11:01:51  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Iíll look more into it when I have some down time. Out of town right now. I may well be wrong - itís happened before and bound to happen again.

My signature line is cooler than your signature line.
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